Jump to content



Photo

TPC - TM out of Superfast heads...


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#26 CDBomb

 
CDBomb

    NUCLEAR ORDNANCE TECH

  • IED TECH

  • PipPipPip
  • 170 posts
 

Posted 21 May 2010 - 09:28 AM

The Black TP SuperFast being sold in Japan is shorter from face to back and rounder than the retail Burner SuperFast.
Designed for low launch and spin. It has a 2* open face angle and less bulge with an all 6-4 Titanium 460cc head with
available lofts of 9.5* and 10.5*.
...

Okay, I am now trying to get a grip on all of the 2010 Burner Superfast versions. Going by what has been posted above; is this a full or at least partial listing?

~Regular U.S. retail Burner Superfast. Closed face, brushed chrome finish.

~Regular U.S. retail Burner Suprfast TP. 1 degree open face, black finish.

~A tour-issued Burner Superfast, not identified as a TP model, w/brushed chrome finish. (Presumably face angle-adjustible, but how? Bending? Shimming? Both?)

~A Japan-only Burner Superfast (TP-designated?). 2 degree open face; slightly different body shape, which Petter describes in part as "shorter from face to back and rounder than the retail Burner SuperFast. Designed for low launch and spin. It has a 2* open face angle and less bulge..."


Have I got all of this right? Are there really four, separate, distinguishable Burner Superfast heads?

Edited by CDBomb, 21 May 2010 - 09:29 AM.

  • 0

#27 CDBomb

 
CDBomb

    NUCLEAR ORDNANCE TECH

  • IED TECH

  • PipPipPip
  • 170 posts
 

Posted 21 May 2010 - 10:21 AM

The USGA Conforming Driver Head List shows no fewer than 11 Burner Superfast heads! Here's the rundown, with my own comments:

  • Burner Superfast 9.5, 10.5 This is apparently the regular retail model we've all seen in stores.
  • Burner Superfast (Japan model) 9.5, 10.5 I gather that this is a kind of regular retail model fo the Japan model. Anybody know how it is different from the North American version?
  • Burner Superfast (Japan model - LH) 9.5, 10.5 See above; Japan lefthanded model.
  • Burner Superfast - LH 9.5, 10.5 This would be the regular retail lefthanded model for North America.
  • Burner Superfast (Tour) 8.5, 9.5, 10.5 This would be the regular retail all-black TP version for North America.
  • Burner Superfast (Tour)(Ladies) 10.5 Wow. A TP version for the ladies! Is it really a different head, or just a mens' TP 10.5 head painted up differently? Lighter? Different shaft, of course, but that by itself would not warrant separate listing on the Confomring Head List. Curious.
  • Burner Superfast (Tour - LH) 9.5 This would be the standard retail all-black TP version for lefties. Sorry, lefties; 9.5 only.
  • Burner Superfast HT (No indicated loft.) This would the the abominable-looking shut-face high-lofted game improvement model gathering dust on retail racks.
  • Burner Superfast HT (Ladies) See above, for the ladies.
  • Burner Superfast TP (Japan model) 8.5, 9.5, 10.5 Petter is proven correct by the USGA List!!!! There IS a Japan-only Superfast TP!
  • Burner Superfast TP (Japan LH model) 9.5 See above. Apparently, Japanese lefties aren't any luckier than American lefties; one loft only.

So that's the list. To simplify for us U.S. club hos, there is an American and a Japanese regular retail Superfast. (Two different heads.) And there is also an American and a Japanese TP-version Superfast. (Again, two different heads.)

What I don't see is any indication of a separate "tour" version of the regular-looking non-black Superfast. This would go to the issue of whatever were the first Burner Superfast heads (that looked like regular retail heads) that were getting used on tour. If I read the USGA list correctly, the early tour heads had to be either regular U.S. or Japan retail heads (perhaps bent and hot-melted by the TMaG tour van). Anybody else have an explanation? Petter? Hoss? Bueller? Bueller... Bueller?

Edited by CDBomb, 21 May 2010 - 10:41 AM.

  • 0

#28 whatshannenin

 
whatshannenin

    BIO/CHEM DIVISION

  • IED TECH

  • PipPip
  • 25 posts
 

Posted 21 May 2010 - 02:31 PM

So what's this "prototype" if it's not listed on the conforming list? Because I'm pretty sure if there is a CG change or cosmetic change, it has to be retested by the USGA....so does that lead me to believe that the TP retail is the same head? Dare I say that?
  • 0

#29 CDBomb

 
CDBomb

    NUCLEAR ORDNANCE TECH

  • IED TECH

  • PipPipPip
  • 170 posts
 

Posted 21 May 2010 - 03:25 PM

So what's this "prototype" if it's not listed on the conforming list? Because I'm pretty sure if there is a CG change or cosmetic change, it has to be retested by the USGA....so does that lead me to believe that the TP retail is the same head? Dare I say that?

In the past, Todd and Hoss have explained pretty effectively that changes in CoG do NOT require, or result in, a separate USGA listing. Cosmetic differences (ironically) really do sort of require re-listing, to the extent that any cosmetic changes make other listings obsolete or confusing. [Since the listing identifiers rely on markings, logos, lines, lettering, etc., it is a big deal if any of that gets changed. As with the sidestamp markings on golf balls. (See, e.g.; Norman, Greg -- DQ)]

But as far as it goes, the Conforming List is a pretty serious thing and if a club isn't there, it probably doesn't exist. There are some exceptions for experimental and prototypes that the USGA will, upon advance application, keep secret and unlisted if a manufacturer can (apparently) make a case for some marketplce competitiveness and trade secrets, but my understanding is that has hardly ever been invoked, and even then the non-listing doesn't last very long. It wouldn't apply to the Superfast, in which a flock of similar models are all in the retail marketplace.

Edited by CDBomb, 21 May 2010 - 03:28 PM.

  • 0

#30 whatshannenin

 
whatshannenin

    BIO/CHEM DIVISION

  • IED TECH

  • PipPip
  • 25 posts
 

Posted 21 May 2010 - 04:30 PM

Through further inspection. It seems as though the Japan TP Model is the same as the Retail TP being released here and the one denoted (Tour) is probably the Tour "Prototype" Hoss was referring to. Since in the pic of the (Tour) it has a silver sole....
  • 0

#31 CDBomb

 
CDBomb

    NUCLEAR ORDNANCE TECH

  • IED TECH

  • PipPipPip
  • 170 posts
 

Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:34 PM

Through further inspection. It seems as though the Japan TP Model is the same as the Retail TP being released here and the one denoted (Tour) is probably the Tour "Prototype" Hoss was referring to. Since in the pic of the (Tour) it has a silver sole....

If indeed the Japan TP and the American TP heads were the same, there'd be no need to list them separately on the USGA list. One listing would suffice. (Of course, ANY change, in markings or finish DOES require a separate listing.) But yeah, I expect that with some investigation, Hoss and Todd will be able to figure this out authoritatively. On the USGA listings of Taylor Made's TP-designated retail clubs, it is quite common for them to be called (Tour) in the listings.

btw, it sure as heck is time for the USGA to join the rest of the 21st century and make its List usable in an interactive HTML format. It's the most cumbersome thing I know of on the internet. Going back and forth to try to look at photos, having to type in exact names, etc.

Edited by CDBomb, 21 May 2010 - 05:38 PM.

  • 0

#32 whatshannenin

 
whatshannenin

    BIO/CHEM DIVISION

  • IED TECH

  • PipPip
  • 25 posts
 

Posted 21 May 2010 - 06:52 PM

If indeed the Japan TP and the American TP heads were the same, there'd be no need to list them separately on the USGA list. One listing would suffice. (Of course, ANY change, in markings or finish DOES require a separate listing.) But yeah, I expect that with some investigation, Hoss and Todd will be able to figure this out authoritatively. On the USGA listings of Taylor Made's TP-designated retail clubs, it is quite common for them to be called (Tour) in the listings.

btw, it sure as heck is time for the USGA to join the rest of the 21st century and make its List usable in an interactive HTML format. It's the most cumbersome thing I know of on the internet. Going back and forth to try to look at photos, having to type in exact names, etc.


Well...I think that the Japan one is denoted as such, because the TP model came out over there earlier and Taylormade didn't anticipate the demand being so high due to the fact that they were releasing the Superdeep, and Supertri, as well as the already popular R9 420 and 460. I only assume they are the same because, the new Retail TP is all black with a TP on the Toe, looks the same as the Japan version....and the (Tour) version looks to be what was the no serial + model and there only appears to be one all black TP model.....the saga continues and so does the dead horse of Tour vs. Retail....gotta love us club hoes!
  • 0

#33 petter7

 
petter7

    BSG INSIDER

  • *** BLACK OPS ***

  • PipPipPip
  • 20,048 posts
  • LocationSoutheast Florida
  • Handicap:+3
 

Posted 21 May 2010 - 09:23 PM

The USGA Conforming Driver Head List shows no fewer than 11 Burner Superfast heads! Here's the rundown, with my own comments:

  • Burner Superfast 9.5, 10.5 This is apparently the regular retail model we've all seen in stores.
  • Burner Superfast (Japan model) 9.5, 10.5 I gather that this is a kind of regular retail model fo the Japan model. Anybody know how it is different from the North American version?
  • Burner Superfast (Japan model - LH) 9.5, 10.5 See above; Japan lefthanded model.
  • Burner Superfast - LH 9.5, 10.5 This would be the regular retail lefthanded model for North America.
  • Burner Superfast (Tour) 8.5, 9.5, 10.5 This would be the regular retail all-black TP version for North America.
  • Burner Superfast (Tour)(Ladies) 10.5 Wow. A TP version for the ladies! Is it really a different head, or just a mens' TP 10.5 head painted up differently? Lighter? Different shaft, of course, but that by itself would not warrant separate listing on the Confomring Head List. Curious.
  • Burner Superfast (Tour - LH) 9.5 This would be the standard retail all-black TP version for lefties. Sorry, lefties; 9.5 only.
  • Burner Superfast HT (No indicated loft.) This would the the abominable-looking shut-face high-lofted game improvement model gathering dust on retail racks.
  • Burner Superfast HT (Ladies) See above, for the ladies.
  • Burner Superfast TP (Japan model) 8.5, 9.5, 10.5 Petter is proven correct by the USGA List!!!! There IS a Japan-only Superfast TP!
  • Burner Superfast TP (Japan LH model) 9.5 See above. Apparently, Japanese lefties aren't any luckier than American lefties; one loft only.

So that's the list. To simplify for us U.S. club hos, there is an American and a Japanese regular retail Superfast. (Two different heads.) And there is also an American and a Japanese TP-version Superfast. (Again, two different heads.)

What I don't see is any indication of a separate "tour" version of the regular-looking non-black Superfast. This would go to the issue of whatever were the first Burner Superfast heads (that looked like regular retail heads) that were getting used on tour. If I read the USGA list correctly, the early tour heads had to be either regular U.S. or Japan retail heads (perhaps bent and hot-melted by the TMaG tour van). Anybody else have an explanation? Petter? Hoss? Bueller? Bueller... Bueller?


Comparing picks of the two heads being used on the PGA Tour (original SuperFast and SuperFast TP) they look like the
same size & shape head with different graphics and paint (TP w/black face/sole). I do not know anything about all the
retail stuff that's on the conforming list, so, I can't shed any light there, but, I do know I want to see the Japan version
of the SuperFast Black TP that has a slightly different shape and has a 2* open club face. That's the one I'm intrigued
by at this point. If I can't get one of those heads, I'll go with the tour T serial head. Thanks for all the info CDBomb.
  • 0

#34 CDBomb

 
CDBomb

    NUCLEAR ORDNANCE TECH

  • IED TECH

  • PipPipPip
  • 170 posts
 

Posted 21 May 2010 - 09:25 PM

Duh, it just dawned on me what you are suggesting. That there is only one all-black Superfast TP, which is the same in Japan and North America. And that there is a (Tour) model that is silver, not black, as shown in the USGA List pictures. Makes sense, and the pictures don't lie.

Who's on first, What's on second, I Don't Know is on third...

Just because I am an incorrigible rebel and a vandal at heart, let us consider that the Japan all-black TP Superfast is (allegedly) spec'ed differently from the U.S TP... Supposedly, the Japan TP has a -2 degree (open) face angle and yet TMaG specs for the U.S. TP is a -1 (open) face angle...

Anybody getting a headache yet?

Edited by CDBomb, 22 May 2010 - 10:10 PM.

  • 0

#35 petter7

 
petter7

    BSG INSIDER

  • *** BLACK OPS ***

  • PipPipPip
  • 20,048 posts
  • LocationSoutheast Florida
  • Handicap:+3
 

Posted 22 May 2010 - 08:13 PM

Duh, I just dawned on me what you are suggesting. That there is only one all-black Superfast TP, which is the same in Japan and North America. And that there is a (Tour) model that is silver, not black, as shown in the USGA List pictures. Makes sense, and the pictures don't lie.

Who's on first, What's on second, I Don't Know is on third...

Just because I am an incorrigible rebel and a vandal at heart, let us consider that the Japan all-black TP Superfast is (allegedly) spec'ed differently from the U.S TP... Supposedly, the Japan TP has a -2 degree (open) face angle and yet TMaG specs for the U.S. TP is a -1 (open) face angle...

Anybody getting a headache yet?


Take a couple of these and wait awhile. Things should clear up a bit once all this stuff is released.
Of course, by then, TM will have something else in the pipeline causing rumor and speculation. I
really don't care, I'm hoping this Superfast Black TP is an improvement over the TBTP that I like. I
am curious about the shape of the Japan head vs the others and either the 1* or 2* open clubface
will suffice. The final decision will come after testing, as always.

Picture 1.jpg
  • 0

#36 petter7

 
petter7

    BSG INSIDER

  • *** BLACK OPS ***

  • PipPipPip
  • 20,048 posts
  • LocationSoutheast Florida
  • Handicap:+3
 

Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:09 PM

Here's some rude comparison pics of the Japan head and bag pics from the Tour. See any difference?


Tour Head left and Japan Head right:
Picture 1.jpg Picture 2.jpg

Tour Head left and Japan Head right:
Picture 5.jpg Picture 4.jpg

Edited by petter7, 22 May 2010 - 09:18 PM.

  • 0